service/lists.md

@@ -29,16 +29,16 @@ tracking this work, which includes updating this document.
 
 ## create a list
 
-A list can be created by running `newlist` on the mailing list server
-(currently `eugeni`):
+A list can be created by running `mailman-wrapper create` on the mailing list server
+(currently `lists-01`):
 
 ```
-ssh eugeni.torproject.org sudo -u list newlist
+ssh lists-01.torproject.org mailman-wrapper create LISTNAME
 ```
 
 If you do not have root access, proceed with the mailman admin
-password on the [list creation form](https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/create), which might or might not
-work.
+password on the [list creation form](https://lists.torproject.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/new/), which is, however, only
+accessible to Mailman administrators.
 
 Mailman creates the list name with an upper case letter. Usually
 people like all lower-case more. So log in to the newly created list
@@ -48,25 +48,15 @@ subject line to lower case.
 If people want to have specific settings (no archive, no public
 listing, etc.), can you set them also at this stage.
 
-TPA should store the new list password in their password manager.
-
-Don't forget to update the [list of mailing lists](#list-of-mailing-lists) (below) upon
-changes and close the trac ticket.
-
 ## Remove a list
 
-To remove a list, use the `rmlist` command on `eugeni`:
+To remove a list, use the `mailman-wrapper remove` command. Be careful
+because this removes the list without confirmation!
 
 ```
-ssh eugeni.torproject.org sudo -u list rmlist LISTNAME
+ssh lists-01.torproject.org mailman-wrapper remove LISTNAME
 ```
 
-By default, archives are kept (including the ones visible on the web via
-`https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/$listname`). If that's not wanted, use
-the `-a` flag.
-
-Don't forget to update the [list of mailing lists](#list-of-mailing-lists) upon changes.
-
 ## What are our most important lists?
 
 New to Tor? If so then welcome! Our most important lists are as
@@ -106,7 +96,7 @@ ticket][] with the following...
 
  * What is the list name?
  * What is the email address of the list maintainer? This person will
-   be given the list's Mailman administrator password, be notified of
+   be given the list's Mailman administrator access, be notified of
    bounces, and emails to the list owner. If this is a closed list
    then they'll be responsible for maintaining the membership.
  * What is a one sentence description of the list? (see
@@ -125,7 +115,7 @@ lists. Non-members will need sign-off of Damian or qbi.
 
 ## Why do we have internal lists?
 
-In additional to our [public email lists](https://www.torproject.org/docs/documentation.html.en#MailingLists) Tor maintains a handful
+In additional to our public email lists Tor maintains a handful
 of communication channels reserved for core contributors. This is not
 a secret inner cabal, but rather community members (both paid and
 unpaid) who have been long-time contributors with the project. (See
@@ -145,6 +135,28 @@ Internal communication channels are open only to core
 contributors. For information on becoming a core contributor, see the
 [Core Contributor Guidelines](https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/community/policies/-/blob/HEAD/docs/membership.md).
 
+## Mailman 3 migration FAQ
+
+### My moderator / admin password doesn't work
+
+See below.
+
+### How do I regain access to my mailing list?
+
+One major difference between Mailman 2 and Mailman 3 is that "list
+passwords" are gone. In Mailman 2, each mailing list has two
+passwords: a moderator and admin passwords, stored in cleartext and
+shared among moderators (and laboriously maintained in the TPA
+password manager).
+
+Mailman 3 cleans all that up: each user now has a normal account,
+global to the entire site and common across lists, associated with
+their email account.
+
+If you were a moderator or admin on a mailing list, simply [sign up
+for an account](https://lists.torproject.org/mailman3/accounts/signup/?next=/mailman3/postorius/lists/) and you should be able to access the list
+moderation facilities.
+
 ## Pager playbook
 
 <!-- information about common errors from the monitoring system and -->
@@ -693,3 +705,12 @@ which is a [plugin](https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mai
 TODO: document settings, limited:
 
 TODO: document the new withlist https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/commands/docs/shell.html
+
+creating a list mailman-wrapper create listname + hack
+
+deleting a list: mailman-wrapper remove test2@lists.torproject.org
+(watch out, no confirm)
+
+list migration is CPU bound. spending lots of time in hyperkitty
+import and indexing, about 10 minutes per 10k mails on a two core VM,
+unclear if paralellized.